Recently I met with Juan Carlos Mijangos-Noh, a Profesor- Investigador at the Universidad Autónoma de Yucatán. I contacted Professor Mijangos Noh prior to my arrival in Mérida after reading a few of his articles addressing the issues Mayan children experienced in school in the Yucatan. One of his most powerful papers focuses on the lack of Mayan language resources in schools for Mayan children in the Yucatan (which happens to contradict Mexican law). https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Juan_Mijangos-Noh.
I started the interview by asking him about his own background, whether he had experienced racism (as a Mayan person) growing up in Mérida. He relayed to me that his parents did not speak Mayan at school and were physically punished. He himself did not learn the language of his people until he attended university. On the issue of racism he said:
I think it’s a global problem that is expressed in a very localized ways which can show us some similarities and we can make some recommendations, but at the end the main issue, it’s a political issue, it’s about democracy, it’s about freedom, it’s about justice and all of this big big concept that explains everything and explains at the same time not.
So what happens from my point of view, you can find Mayan people and people from other ethnic backgrounds that really wish to be part of, they cannot betray or lose or whatever they can express as a feeling of, the negative feeling in relation with their ethnicity ok?
But a bigger part is struggling trying to fit in a global world and I mean in a capitalist world which means more consumerism, more things, less relationship with their ethnical elements which they feel now they are feeling are a burden against their chances to get progress.
So that way is the same thing that poor people all over the world white, black or whatever color they have experience. Many people don’t want to be identified with the underdog, because it’s painful, because it´s not socially rewarded and a huge problem in terms of personal achievement. So I don’t think it is possible to put apart the problem of ethnicity, the problem of learning the problem of cultural and political relationships between different groups.
A common issue, felt by Professor Mijangnos Noh and his colleagues is that by assisting the Mayan students through the existing school structures that they were inadvertently separating the children from their own culture and causing more harm then good and ultimately losing the culture:
I think we can make some difference, not make THE difference, that we can make a little, probably very insignificant for us or for the system in general, but sometimes for some people in some places it’s very important and probably the only chance so having said that I think it’s very important for you to understand that, because I’ve met many really good people, American professors that “ok I wanna work with my students with my Latino students” and in the first place they are of course Latinos under the circumstance that they are in America, they are labeled that way but from their personal history, their political history, their national history or any history they are way different each other. That makes the task really epic, it’s really hard work.
I’m going to use the words from a colleague from UCSD -she told me she was working with foster students at UCSD and she was very disappointed because many of them never caught up to the system and when they succeed, few of them succeed, they never wan to return to their point of origin. If you succeed why you wanna go to a place in San Diego downtown where you were a homeless? And their aspirations are “ok now I wanna live in a middle class neighborhood” you know what I mean? I totally know, so if you succeed you probably are succeeding in a wrong way, in a way when people don’t identify themselves anymore with their African American backgrounds with their Latino backgrounds, whatever environment they experienced. So this is another part of the large groups, the disappointment you need to deal with.
This is interesting, the way you can kill a culture, doing good things, you know? There’s a way where love can kill people at least cultures.
This was an amazing experience, but essentially all of the questions I prepared were based on his past work. I asked about the work and he said:
Probably you read the couple of papers I wrote about 5-6 years ago, so I changed my focus, I quit trying to change the school, so now I’m trying to work with families out of school, not the inside the school I’m just trying to find more chances to have meaningful discussion with parents and students and I’m very happy because besides it’s less stressful than being at the structured environment of the school, is the way for me to understand and learn very much, a big deal about their real life and their real struggles they have every single day so now I now creating a community center in a very small village, called Canicab, and I try not to give up school, really I don’t think it’s useless for them, I think it’s important for them to have a chance to learn but they want to learn what they need to learn in order to improve their environment and if they want to get some certificates or things that are important to them in order to get a job I’m very glad to help them with that.
I try to put new resources around them in order to do that, I’m not promoting school, I’m not promoting a way for them to do well with the educational system, that’s because my experience and my research has showed me that school is an excellent device for social reproduction. It’s not just for that, of course you can find, outliers. And of course that you can read quite a radical left hint but I don’t think they really have, can have many original outlets from the educational system the way is now in Latin America. It is designed to be that way, it’s not an accident actually it’s not a problem that can be solved with a good will. It’s not that case, for me it was pretty hard to transcend that because I myself a scholar and a person who succeeded in school and when I revisited my school, ok I succeed in school to the price to take the label of repressor for them, I’m trying to get rid out of that label, and I’m afraid that it’s not possible you cannot fight, you cannot escape from the relationship you’ve built with people and it’s a problem you know? And they know that, that’s I don’t know, that you sometimes have a feeling that ok they are not believing me, they don’t feel I’m trustworthy, they don’t feel I can be honestly and earnestly interested in them and I know that’s painful.
We’re trying to develop some devices: economical, educational, political in order to create some kind of autonomy which means we’re not engaged with the political parties, governments, or any other, we are trying to have a good relationship with the community, offer the things we can offer and ideas we can offer. Trying to convince by practice about what we’re doing and in order to provide these economical and political educational devices are set to for resistance and in this very very direct meaning, is some food in your table, water, fresh water, food, a job if you can, at least food if you can’t get a job and trying to get some legal knowledge to defend your land if it’s necessary. I’m trying to create a community network that support the young people that are very easily recruited by the narcotraffic dealers and alcohol, problems or other things.
I was very intrigued by this and asked a little more about Canicab and invited myself to see the town in person.
We have been in Canicab since 2012, this April will be 4 years, and our first goal is very very simple we are trying to be independent in relation with nutrition because we are wanting to consuming what we are crop. We are very close to succeed in that but with a very boring diet now. But we are doing pretty well, and we’re solving the water problem energy and food. Well it’s just basic, actually believe me school never prepared us to do that, we were prepared to write some papers and deliver some presentations but not to solve real problems. So I’m very glad I just learned a bunch of things about fluids and earth, the soil, plants, energy and l earned to bury my hands, my bare hands, it’s very meaningful action and I’m very happy I must say it’s the happiest hours of my week.
So we are acting locally against global problems and we are trying to do it by ourselves without any kind of external support because we are more to get a very ample way to develop our own agenda and we are not working for different agendas than our own.
And we only have very simple rules: we don’t get money from the government or other instances, we don’t make any political propaganda, we invite people about things we believe are interesting and we believe in, but we never make any kind of l publicity, we trying to keep it very low profile in that way, but very high profile in getting them rid out of the problems in everyday life there. And it’s really hard and it requires a lot of smart people around us, so you have any idea that you think would help? It’s always welcomed
Finally I asked about my favorite school (UABIC) and if Professor Mijangnos Noh knew of any colleagues researching or following the success of the school. Coincidentally, his colleagues and he were completing a paper in the next few weeks. The paper, it is important to note, is based on colonial theory and is critical of UABIC and the school system in general. Professor Mijangnos Noh said:
Don’t get me wrong, I appreciate very much when people have chances to change your life and of course I know some of them are very happy to cause those changes around the neighbors, but a school is still a school and is doing what a school does. And what school does here is reproducing.
I secured an invite to Canicab and some follow up meetings. It was a perfect conversation and interview! I wanted to also include some final words in terms of hope, passion and working for a better life for all:
Well it’s a really, I don’t know how is the saying in English but in Spanish, well Mexican Spanish we use the expression “Agarrarse a un clavo caliente” {Literally to grab onto a hot nail} OK? grab a nail on fire, is a hope, there’s always hope but a very hot one.
Stay tuned for more interviews and a visit to Canicab
I started the interview by asking him about his own background, whether he had experienced racism (as a Mayan person) growing up in Mérida. He relayed to me that his parents did not speak Mayan at school and were physically punished. He himself did not learn the language of his people until he attended university. On the issue of racism he said:
I think it’s a global problem that is expressed in a very localized ways which can show us some similarities and we can make some recommendations, but at the end the main issue, it’s a political issue, it’s about democracy, it’s about freedom, it’s about justice and all of this big big concept that explains everything and explains at the same time not.
So what happens from my point of view, you can find Mayan people and people from other ethnic backgrounds that really wish to be part of, they cannot betray or lose or whatever they can express as a feeling of, the negative feeling in relation with their ethnicity ok?
But a bigger part is struggling trying to fit in a global world and I mean in a capitalist world which means more consumerism, more things, less relationship with their ethnical elements which they feel now they are feeling are a burden against their chances to get progress.
So that way is the same thing that poor people all over the world white, black or whatever color they have experience. Many people don’t want to be identified with the underdog, because it’s painful, because it´s not socially rewarded and a huge problem in terms of personal achievement. So I don’t think it is possible to put apart the problem of ethnicity, the problem of learning the problem of cultural and political relationships between different groups.
A common issue, felt by Professor Mijangnos Noh and his colleagues is that by assisting the Mayan students through the existing school structures that they were inadvertently separating the children from their own culture and causing more harm then good and ultimately losing the culture:
I think we can make some difference, not make THE difference, that we can make a little, probably very insignificant for us or for the system in general, but sometimes for some people in some places it’s very important and probably the only chance so having said that I think it’s very important for you to understand that, because I’ve met many really good people, American professors that “ok I wanna work with my students with my Latino students” and in the first place they are of course Latinos under the circumstance that they are in America, they are labeled that way but from their personal history, their political history, their national history or any history they are way different each other. That makes the task really epic, it’s really hard work.
I’m going to use the words from a colleague from UCSD -she told me she was working with foster students at UCSD and she was very disappointed because many of them never caught up to the system and when they succeed, few of them succeed, they never wan to return to their point of origin. If you succeed why you wanna go to a place in San Diego downtown where you were a homeless? And their aspirations are “ok now I wanna live in a middle class neighborhood” you know what I mean? I totally know, so if you succeed you probably are succeeding in a wrong way, in a way when people don’t identify themselves anymore with their African American backgrounds with their Latino backgrounds, whatever environment they experienced. So this is another part of the large groups, the disappointment you need to deal with.
This is interesting, the way you can kill a culture, doing good things, you know? There’s a way where love can kill people at least cultures.
This was an amazing experience, but essentially all of the questions I prepared were based on his past work. I asked about the work and he said:
Probably you read the couple of papers I wrote about 5-6 years ago, so I changed my focus, I quit trying to change the school, so now I’m trying to work with families out of school, not the inside the school I’m just trying to find more chances to have meaningful discussion with parents and students and I’m very happy because besides it’s less stressful than being at the structured environment of the school, is the way for me to understand and learn very much, a big deal about their real life and their real struggles they have every single day so now I now creating a community center in a very small village, called Canicab, and I try not to give up school, really I don’t think it’s useless for them, I think it’s important for them to have a chance to learn but they want to learn what they need to learn in order to improve their environment and if they want to get some certificates or things that are important to them in order to get a job I’m very glad to help them with that.
I try to put new resources around them in order to do that, I’m not promoting school, I’m not promoting a way for them to do well with the educational system, that’s because my experience and my research has showed me that school is an excellent device for social reproduction. It’s not just for that, of course you can find, outliers. And of course that you can read quite a radical left hint but I don’t think they really have, can have many original outlets from the educational system the way is now in Latin America. It is designed to be that way, it’s not an accident actually it’s not a problem that can be solved with a good will. It’s not that case, for me it was pretty hard to transcend that because I myself a scholar and a person who succeeded in school and when I revisited my school, ok I succeed in school to the price to take the label of repressor for them, I’m trying to get rid out of that label, and I’m afraid that it’s not possible you cannot fight, you cannot escape from the relationship you’ve built with people and it’s a problem you know? And they know that, that’s I don’t know, that you sometimes have a feeling that ok they are not believing me, they don’t feel I’m trustworthy, they don’t feel I can be honestly and earnestly interested in them and I know that’s painful.
We’re trying to develop some devices: economical, educational, political in order to create some kind of autonomy which means we’re not engaged with the political parties, governments, or any other, we are trying to have a good relationship with the community, offer the things we can offer and ideas we can offer. Trying to convince by practice about what we’re doing and in order to provide these economical and political educational devices are set to for resistance and in this very very direct meaning, is some food in your table, water, fresh water, food, a job if you can, at least food if you can’t get a job and trying to get some legal knowledge to defend your land if it’s necessary. I’m trying to create a community network that support the young people that are very easily recruited by the narcotraffic dealers and alcohol, problems or other things.
I was very intrigued by this and asked a little more about Canicab and invited myself to see the town in person.
We have been in Canicab since 2012, this April will be 4 years, and our first goal is very very simple we are trying to be independent in relation with nutrition because we are wanting to consuming what we are crop. We are very close to succeed in that but with a very boring diet now. But we are doing pretty well, and we’re solving the water problem energy and food. Well it’s just basic, actually believe me school never prepared us to do that, we were prepared to write some papers and deliver some presentations but not to solve real problems. So I’m very glad I just learned a bunch of things about fluids and earth, the soil, plants, energy and l earned to bury my hands, my bare hands, it’s very meaningful action and I’m very happy I must say it’s the happiest hours of my week.
So we are acting locally against global problems and we are trying to do it by ourselves without any kind of external support because we are more to get a very ample way to develop our own agenda and we are not working for different agendas than our own.
And we only have very simple rules: we don’t get money from the government or other instances, we don’t make any political propaganda, we invite people about things we believe are interesting and we believe in, but we never make any kind of l publicity, we trying to keep it very low profile in that way, but very high profile in getting them rid out of the problems in everyday life there. And it’s really hard and it requires a lot of smart people around us, so you have any idea that you think would help? It’s always welcomed
Finally I asked about my favorite school (UABIC) and if Professor Mijangnos Noh knew of any colleagues researching or following the success of the school. Coincidentally, his colleagues and he were completing a paper in the next few weeks. The paper, it is important to note, is based on colonial theory and is critical of UABIC and the school system in general. Professor Mijangnos Noh said:
Don’t get me wrong, I appreciate very much when people have chances to change your life and of course I know some of them are very happy to cause those changes around the neighbors, but a school is still a school and is doing what a school does. And what school does here is reproducing.
I secured an invite to Canicab and some follow up meetings. It was a perfect conversation and interview! I wanted to also include some final words in terms of hope, passion and working for a better life for all:
Well it’s a really, I don’t know how is the saying in English but in Spanish, well Mexican Spanish we use the expression “Agarrarse a un clavo caliente” {Literally to grab onto a hot nail} OK? grab a nail on fire, is a hope, there’s always hope but a very hot one.
Stay tuned for more interviews and a visit to Canicab